Open Letter
May. 31st, 2007 08:39 am<Rant>
Dear To Men,
I know this is a subject which has been brought to your attention numerous times, by women you know, strangers in the street, documentaries, newspapers and various other forms. But you are clearly not getting it.
Women, believe it or not, do not necessarily want your attention.
I know this may come as a shock to you. It certainly seemed to come as a shock to the four men who - separately - approached me last night, after half 10pm, while I was unlocking my bike outside Sainsbury's. They all seemed very surprised indeed that a young, lone, small blonde woman would be undesirous of the attentions of a lone man at night. One was so surprised, in fact, that I rebuffed his attentions, that he seemed to arrive at the conclusion that I was a 'fucking slut'. I am rather bemused at this deduction, as I would have thought that that type of woman would, in fact, have welcomed such advances.
Women also do not like being yelled at from men in cars, vans, lorries and building sites. I know this may come as a terrible shock, as I am sure from the frequency with which it occurs, men must find this a particularly successful way of getting a date. I should note that yelling at a woman who is turning right at a busy road, merely to tell her that you can see her bum, and that you approve, is not a good way to ingratiate yourself with said girl. You are far more likely to find that when you a stopped at the next junction, your tail light will be kicked in. Or it would have been, had I caught up with you.
I am aware that in the animal world, male birds strut and whistle particular tunes to attract a mate. I am sorry to inform you that this method does not work for humans. In fact, the next man that tries to attract me by adopting a pigeon chested stature, whistling at me, and calling out the mating chant of the Greater Spotted Twat, "alrite darlin" will find that his reproductive equipment experience rearranging when they meet my shoe, at speed.
If you see a woman you find attractive on the street, or in public, here is a handy guide to prevent you being murdered by a woman who is finally at the end of her temper with idiots who fail to recognise that women are people, and not things to be pulled, raped, mugged, or just shouted at in a moment of boredom.
• Don't be an unmitigating bastard. If you are one of these, then stick to pulling desperate drunk women in bars.
• Make sure you are good looking, or at least dressed well, clean, and that you smell ok. If you are unwashed, unsanitary, sweaty, or have a third ear in the middle of your forehead, may I recommend a bath, deodorant and possibly even surgery. If you have any female friends, ask them for their advice on your appearance. Do not get cross if you do not agree with their recommendations. The best way to attract a woman, is to listen to what women think of you. If you think you know better, then you have an answer, right there, as to why you are still alone.
• Do not approach any lone women you do not already know late at night. Some men do not seem to realise, but women have an inbuilt fear of men at night, which prompts us to automatically reject a suitor who approaches in this way. WE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US. Even if this is not your intention, let me assure you, WE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US. Whether this is experience, genetic hard-wiring, social conditioning, or something else, I do not know - although I personally beleive it's part of that entirely necessary fight or flight instinct. Part of our brain says DANGER. RUN/FIGHT NOW. Let me assure you, that in 99% of circumstances, lone women at night who are approached by men WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE THEM. That other 1% may assume the same thing, but they usually get payment in advance.
• If you do make the error of approaching a lone woman late at night, and you receive an angry, fearful or violent response from the woman, and you are unsure why, please refer to the point above. Women, when they are scared, often respond with anger, and thus may shout at you. If this does occur, the best course of action is to back away, apologise, and leave her alone. If you follow her, or try to continue the conversation, SHE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE HER. If she does get angry and shout at you, I would suggest that, owing to the point above, that this is a PERFECTLY VALID AND SANE RESPONSE.
• Many men seem to be surprised by the reaction of women such as I have described above. I have witnessed men being upset and hurt, even shocked by having their advances rebuffed. As men really do not seem to understand why a woman might reject their advances, I shall try to explain it very, very slowly.
WE. ASSUME. YOU. WANT. TO. RAPE. US.
• Just in case you are still confused, I shall clarify further.
WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU. IF YOU TRY TO HAVE SEX WITH US WHEN WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO THIS IS RAPE. WHEN YOU APPROACH US LATE AT NIGHT WE ASSUME YOU WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH US. THEREFORE: WHEN YOU APPROACH US LATE AT NIGHT, WE ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US.
• IF you do see a woman in public you think is beautiful, and you would like to take her for a drink (and not just have sex with her) then she may actually quite like it if you ask her. However, this is dependant on your surroundings.
Appropriate places:
Anywhere with lots of people, e.g. the underground, supermarkets, libraries, coffee shops.
Places where people go to socialise, e.g. pubs, clubs
Inappropriate places:
Dark alleyways
Deserted streets
Public toilets
Night buses
Anywhere she is on her own and no one else is around
When she is unlocking her bike from an area notorious for bike theft, theft and violent crime when everything around you is closed
Good ways to start the conversation:
'I'm sorry, I hope you don't think this is weird, well, i mean it is, but you're really pretty, I don't suppose you'd let me buy you a coffee?'
'I know this is a bit weird, and I'm a total stranger, and please tell me to fuck off if you want to, but you just looked too beautiful to let you walk past me and out of my life without me stopping to ask you your name'
Something like that. ALWAYS acknowledge your actions in approaching a stranger are weird. ALWAYS give her the option of backing off.
Bad ways to start the conversation:
'Alrit darlin'
'great tits luv'
'fancy one do ya?'
'OI OI!!!! OI!!! OI YOU!!!!'
NEVER EVER EVER get pissed off if she says 'no'.
• Sometimes, there are some very obvious signs a woman is busy, and attempting conversation may be an error. For example:
- She is reading a book
- She is listening to music
- She is on the phone
Women often do these things because they enjoy them. Some men seem to believe that women only do these things to fill up the time in between when men are talking to them. This is an erroneous assumption ,and foolish in the extreme.
If a woman is reading, and you talk to her, and she continues to hold the book/magazine/newspaper in the same position and continues to read, then she is NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING TO YOU.
• I am repeating this because it is probably the most important piece of information you will ever know about women. You must always bear this in mind when approaching any woman. We live in fear of being raped. We just do. We may not think about it all the time, but it's there, at the back of our mind when we walk home. When we walk to the bus stop at night. When we wait to meet someone. When we're surrounded by men we don't know. When we are walking on unfamiliar streets. When a man we don't know approaches us. When we feel lonely, vulnerable, far from home. This is why we do not like it when men yell at us. When they whistle. When they jeer and hoot and shout lewd things from cars. When a man on the street asks us for a cigarette. It is a constant, and occasionally all consuming fear that we will always have. And it is why we reject advances with such volume and stress. Because we are AFRAID because you are BIGGER than us, and STRONGER than us and WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU.
• If you do not understand any of the above, there is no hope for you.
Yours sincerely,
Me.
P.s. the next man that approaches me late at night while I'm on my own is going to find out exactly what it feels like to have an Abus maximum security D-lock repeatedly slammed into their head. Purely in the name of science, of course.
</Rant>
EDIT: I'm adding this in, to the guys reading this who are saying 'hey, we're not all like this...'
Men don't get it, because they're either too nice to understand why other men would behave like that, or they're the fucktards doing it in the first place.
EDIT: A small number of women have said they don't fear rape per se, more attack. I'm not going to change it, because I think it's the fundamental difference between women and men walking home at night - men might fear attack/theft/mugging, but there's something much more basic, more primal, more personal about the fear of rape than the fear of attack. And these men that say 'allo darling' - well - these are SEXUAL ADVANCES. And we don't respond badly to them because we think these men are going to take our phone or our wallet. I'm not telling you 'YOU FEAR RAPE'. I'm explaining WHY women react badly in those situations. I would go as far to say that some of you have misunderstood my point, zoned in on one part, thought 'she says i fear rape! no i don't!!' and not taken into account the *context*.
If you do still take issue with the use of the word 'rape' - please feel free to re-read substituting the word 'rape' for 'hurt'.
EDIT: 'To Men' - it will stand. I know there are exemptions, but it's making people read it, and if it wasn't controversial, who'd bother? ;) I do accept some of you have valid reasons for taking issue with 'To Men', and I agree with those points, but again, it will stand, mainly because I think it's funnier. I will also direct you to this excellent comment which is written better than i managed.
I know this is a subject which has been brought to your attention numerous times, by women you know, strangers in the street, documentaries, newspapers and various other forms. But you are clearly not getting it.
Women, believe it or not, do not necessarily want your attention.
I know this may come as a shock to you. It certainly seemed to come as a shock to the four men who - separately - approached me last night, after half 10pm, while I was unlocking my bike outside Sainsbury's. They all seemed very surprised indeed that a young, lone, small blonde woman would be undesirous of the attentions of a lone man at night. One was so surprised, in fact, that I rebuffed his attentions, that he seemed to arrive at the conclusion that I was a 'fucking slut'. I am rather bemused at this deduction, as I would have thought that that type of woman would, in fact, have welcomed such advances.
Women also do not like being yelled at from men in cars, vans, lorries and building sites. I know this may come as a terrible shock, as I am sure from the frequency with which it occurs, men must find this a particularly successful way of getting a date. I should note that yelling at a woman who is turning right at a busy road, merely to tell her that you can see her bum, and that you approve, is not a good way to ingratiate yourself with said girl. You are far more likely to find that when you a stopped at the next junction, your tail light will be kicked in. Or it would have been, had I caught up with you.
I am aware that in the animal world, male birds strut and whistle particular tunes to attract a mate. I am sorry to inform you that this method does not work for humans. In fact, the next man that tries to attract me by adopting a pigeon chested stature, whistling at me, and calling out the mating chant of the Greater Spotted Twat, "alrite darlin" will find that his reproductive equipment experience rearranging when they meet my shoe, at speed.
If you see a woman you find attractive on the street, or in public, here is a handy guide to prevent you being murdered by a woman who is finally at the end of her temper with idiots who fail to recognise that women are people, and not things to be pulled, raped, mugged, or just shouted at in a moment of boredom.
• Don't be an unmitigating bastard. If you are one of these, then stick to pulling desperate drunk women in bars.
• Make sure you are good looking, or at least dressed well, clean, and that you smell ok. If you are unwashed, unsanitary, sweaty, or have a third ear in the middle of your forehead, may I recommend a bath, deodorant and possibly even surgery. If you have any female friends, ask them for their advice on your appearance. Do not get cross if you do not agree with their recommendations. The best way to attract a woman, is to listen to what women think of you. If you think you know better, then you have an answer, right there, as to why you are still alone.
• Do not approach any lone women you do not already know late at night. Some men do not seem to realise, but women have an inbuilt fear of men at night, which prompts us to automatically reject a suitor who approaches in this way. WE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US. Even if this is not your intention, let me assure you, WE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US. Whether this is experience, genetic hard-wiring, social conditioning, or something else, I do not know - although I personally beleive it's part of that entirely necessary fight or flight instinct. Part of our brain says DANGER. RUN/FIGHT NOW. Let me assure you, that in 99% of circumstances, lone women at night who are approached by men WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE THEM. That other 1% may assume the same thing, but they usually get payment in advance.
• If you do make the error of approaching a lone woman late at night, and you receive an angry, fearful or violent response from the woman, and you are unsure why, please refer to the point above. Women, when they are scared, often respond with anger, and thus may shout at you. If this does occur, the best course of action is to back away, apologise, and leave her alone. If you follow her, or try to continue the conversation, SHE WILL ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE HER. If she does get angry and shout at you, I would suggest that, owing to the point above, that this is a PERFECTLY VALID AND SANE RESPONSE.
• Many men seem to be surprised by the reaction of women such as I have described above. I have witnessed men being upset and hurt, even shocked by having their advances rebuffed. As men really do not seem to understand why a woman might reject their advances, I shall try to explain it very, very slowly.
WE. ASSUME. YOU. WANT. TO. RAPE. US.
• Just in case you are still confused, I shall clarify further.
WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU. IF YOU TRY TO HAVE SEX WITH US WHEN WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO THIS IS RAPE. WHEN YOU APPROACH US LATE AT NIGHT WE ASSUME YOU WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH US. THEREFORE: WHEN YOU APPROACH US LATE AT NIGHT, WE ASSUME YOU WANT TO RAPE US.
• IF you do see a woman in public you think is beautiful, and you would like to take her for a drink (and not just have sex with her) then she may actually quite like it if you ask her. However, this is dependant on your surroundings.
Appropriate places:
Anywhere with lots of people, e.g. the underground, supermarkets, libraries, coffee shops.
Places where people go to socialise, e.g. pubs, clubs
Inappropriate places:
Dark alleyways
Deserted streets
Public toilets
Night buses
Anywhere she is on her own and no one else is around
When she is unlocking her bike from an area notorious for bike theft, theft and violent crime when everything around you is closed
Good ways to start the conversation:
'I'm sorry, I hope you don't think this is weird, well, i mean it is, but you're really pretty, I don't suppose you'd let me buy you a coffee?'
'I know this is a bit weird, and I'm a total stranger, and please tell me to fuck off if you want to, but you just looked too beautiful to let you walk past me and out of my life without me stopping to ask you your name'
Something like that. ALWAYS acknowledge your actions in approaching a stranger are weird. ALWAYS give her the option of backing off.
Bad ways to start the conversation:
'Alrit darlin'
'great tits luv'
'fancy one do ya?'
'OI OI!!!! OI!!! OI YOU!!!!'
NEVER EVER EVER get pissed off if she says 'no'.
• Sometimes, there are some very obvious signs a woman is busy, and attempting conversation may be an error. For example:
- She is reading a book
- She is listening to music
- She is on the phone
Women often do these things because they enjoy them. Some men seem to believe that women only do these things to fill up the time in between when men are talking to them. This is an erroneous assumption ,and foolish in the extreme.
If a woman is reading, and you talk to her, and she continues to hold the book/magazine/newspaper in the same position and continues to read, then she is NOT INTERESTED IN TALKING TO YOU.
• I am repeating this because it is probably the most important piece of information you will ever know about women. You must always bear this in mind when approaching any woman. We live in fear of being raped. We just do. We may not think about it all the time, but it's there, at the back of our mind when we walk home. When we walk to the bus stop at night. When we wait to meet someone. When we're surrounded by men we don't know. When we are walking on unfamiliar streets. When a man we don't know approaches us. When we feel lonely, vulnerable, far from home. This is why we do not like it when men yell at us. When they whistle. When they jeer and hoot and shout lewd things from cars. When a man on the street asks us for a cigarette. It is a constant, and occasionally all consuming fear that we will always have. And it is why we reject advances with such volume and stress. Because we are AFRAID because you are BIGGER than us, and STRONGER than us and WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU.
• If you do not understand any of the above, there is no hope for you.
Yours sincerely,
Me.
P.s. the next man that approaches me late at night while I'm on my own is going to find out exactly what it feels like to have an Abus maximum security D-lock repeatedly slammed into their head. Purely in the name of science, of course.
</Rant>
EDIT: I'm adding this in, to the guys reading this who are saying 'hey, we're not all like this...'
Men don't get it, because they're either too nice to understand why other men would behave like that, or they're the fucktards doing it in the first place.
EDIT: A small number of women have said they don't fear rape per se, more attack. I'm not going to change it, because I think it's the fundamental difference between women and men walking home at night - men might fear attack/theft/mugging, but there's something much more basic, more primal, more personal about the fear of rape than the fear of attack. And these men that say 'allo darling' - well - these are SEXUAL ADVANCES. And we don't respond badly to them because we think these men are going to take our phone or our wallet. I'm not telling you 'YOU FEAR RAPE'. I'm explaining WHY women react badly in those situations. I would go as far to say that some of you have misunderstood my point, zoned in on one part, thought 'she says i fear rape! no i don't!!' and not taken into account the *context*.
If you do still take issue with the use of the word 'rape' - please feel free to re-read substituting the word 'rape' for 'hurt'.
EDIT: 'To Men' - it will stand. I know there are exemptions, but it's making people read it, and if it wasn't controversial, who'd bother? ;) I do accept some of you have valid reasons for taking issue with 'To Men', and I agree with those points, but again, it will stand, mainly because I think it's funnier. I will also direct you to this excellent comment which is written better than i managed.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:17 pm (UTC)I'mnot sure which is is, either. I always assumed it was hear, hear - as in 'i hear you, oh yes sir, i hear you'.
Let's ask the internet!! *googles*
according to google, it's 'hear hear' - The correct term is, "hear, hear!" It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:40 am (UTC)I was just thinking about this last night, when some bloke tried very hard to get my attention as I walked home, alone, in Stratford, at gone 11pm. He seemed really surprised and offended when I ignored him and just walked a little faster.
If I hadn't been scared of the consequences I would have gone over to him and explained very clearly that there if you want to get to know a woman better, you approach her in daylight, with other people around, by introducing yourself (what is it with that? Why do so many men seem to think it's acceptable to demand to know your name, without thinking of offering their own?); you don't shout "Hello darling! Oy! Darling! Hello!" at her when she's on her own and feeling vulnerable, late at night in a less than entirely salubrious area. It really does boggle me that people think this is acceptable behaviour.
I have _once_ been chatted up on the street in an aceeptable way; it was daylight, I was coming home from the supermarket, and a bloke said "Hello" and asked if it was OK for him to walk with me a little way., and then introduced himself. Nice bloke, we had a good chat, and I didn't feel vulnerable. In fact, we bumped into each other again a while later, and chatted again, and if I saw him around now, I'd probably be quite willing to go for a coffee with him.
But the guys who shout from cars, or try to talk to me when it's late and dark and I'm on my own? Do they _honestly_ think that I'm stupid enough to want anything to do with them?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:01 am (UTC)I don't think a lot of guys realise HOW often it happens to women. The few occasions i've been with a male friend or boyfriend and have been groped/approached etc they've gone MENTAL and it's so hard to explain 'look, it happens all the time...'
and WHEEEEEE i got an *applause* from
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:41 am (UTC)i hate the fact that this is true :(
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:56 am (UTC)This is not an isolated incident. 4 men last night, and the van man was today, and the 'allo dalring' bloke round the corner from work.
Our friends can't be there all the time, and women have this happpen to them on a daily basis. We shouldn't need to have to make sure a male friend can accompany us every where.
It makes me really sad that 50%(ish) of the population have to be constantly wary of the other 50%(ish) because some of that latter 50%(ish) are fucking morons.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:54 am (UTC)"Oi darlin'! Oi darlin'! I'm a wanker, ha ha ha. I'm a wanker!"
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 08:55 am (UTC)But that said, it would probably have the complete opposite effect on their perception of their safety to offer such. >_< goddamnit.
This is why girls should be issued weaponry. Equalisation is the solution.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:13 am (UTC)And the worst thing is that sometimes, even the ones you know to be nice guys turn out to be a threat too; woman are, after all, far more likely to be raped by someone they know, maybe even the guy who offered to walk them home safely, than by a stranger, and while of course that doesn't mean that every man who offers to walk us home is a rapist, it does mean that we can't win; if we walk home alone, we're at risk (and if anything happens, we'll be blamed for putting ourselves at risk) and if we get someone to walk us home were at risk (and if anything ahppens, we'll be blamed for putting ourselves at risk).
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:04 am (UTC)I do not think every guy is going to rape me, otherwise i'd never leave the house or talk to anyone, but this is mainly because i'm 5' 8" and x stone... but i still get all these comments from men and its still intimidating, condescending and misogynistic. When has any man ever pulled this way, or think that women like it, or get some kick out of it????
I've always said there is quite simply - if you like a girl, go up, introduce yourself - possible buy her a drink - ask her about herself - !!!!!
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:36 pm (UTC)its still intimidating, condescending and misogynistic
spot on there matey.
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:11 am (UTC)I do want to say, however, that:
'I know this is a bit weird, and I'm a total stranger, and please tell me to fuck off if you want to, but you just looked too beautiful to let you walk past me and out of my life without me stopping to ask you your name' did make me smile. I have to admit that the one question I've wanted to ask lots of people I see rather than their name as above is "what makes your life interesting?". I dunno, possibly I'm just a bit weird, but I suspect you knew that already. :-)
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:37 pm (UTC)One day, i tell myself, i'll manage proper *more than once* eye contact and i'll say hi.
i will.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:41 am (UTC)I'm a slut, and I still don't welcome these advances.
[well, I'm kinda a reformed slut now, due to the monogamy. But still]
for me at least, part of being slutty was choosing who I was slutty with. My regular standards still applied.
For me, personally, my hatred of these kind of encounters are not entirely to do with fear of rape. It's more that I get really angry that these guys think they have the right to comment on my appearence and invade my space - it's just rude. Like women are public property, which clearly we are not.
Also, I'm just as scared of violence as I am of rape. My general fear in these situations is that it will get to a point that I can't handle on my own, be that violent or sexual.
I could talk about this for ages. Will stop now.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:59 am (UTC)i think in general men don't get it, because they're either too nice to understand why other men would behave like that, or they're the fucktards doing it in the first place.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 09:48 am (UTC)Thank you for your lucid and spot on posting.
You are so fab.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:41 pm (UTC)It just happens SO OFTEN.
Far more now then when i was a goth - back then it was just 'oi goffik' and 'sit on my face elvira' - you just put up with it (albeit with bad grace...) because ok, you look weird, you stand out, they'll see you. But it's so much worse when i'm just blonde, and wearing trousers and a t-shirt, or just dressed for everyday. The comments are less off the wall and jokey,and far more frequent.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:02 am (UTC)However I would apportion a share of the blame to women who do like being spoken to in that way and when asked to 'get their tits out' by builders actually do.
One of the reasons that men take this attitude is because it works.
The following Bad ways to start the conversation:
'Alrit darlin'
'great tits luv'
'fancy one do ya?'
'OI OI!!!! OI!!! OI YOU!!!!'
Are all ways I have observed to start a conversation with some which does lead to a sexual encounter. You see tragically a number of people do respond to this which encouorages the response.
I could point you at a number of people who do think those are chat up lines.... they are female.
As long as your slapping the shit out of these folks for encouraging the men you object to then thats OK.
The D Lock thing....
Yes you should do it anyway.
Hey youve been cycling a while now.... have you started bending back wing mirrors when pissed off yet?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:29 am (UTC)These are the girls I see on programmes like 'Binge Britain' who will happily take their tops off in bars and let blokes they've just met feel them up. That women will behave like this amazes and appalls me in equal measure, and certainly provides encouragement [not excuse] for men to continue to behave in the boorish manner we're discussing.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:14 am (UTC)I'll randomly chat to people - male and female - in 'safer' spaces - as you say, light, people, access, etc, but alone, late at night - everyone's a potential threat ... this is partly because people who throw themselves at you late at night, of either gender, tend to be eithr drunk, or nutters, or both, and drunk nutters are unpredictable and potentially violent and this is scary ...
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 11:03 am (UTC)http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1180499948496&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1112188062581
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:15 am (UTC)I am one of the blokes who never approaches a lady in that manner. I can understand perfectly why women would not want any such attention, especially late at night.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:45 pm (UTC)I don't think it's just gay men who are exempt - i think there are a LOT of straight men out there who wouldn't dream of getting violent and offended and aggressive when a lone woman at night turns down his advances. I'm aware it's a horribly sweeping generalisation!!
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:35 am (UTC)While it's impossible to take gender entirely out of this, I think that you can do so to some extent, and that so doing turns it into a discussion on courtesy.
Would you approach something weaker and smaller than you, when it is in a vulnerable situation, and not expect some form of retaliation? Look at pregnant cats, lions with thorns in their paws (not weak or small, I know), and 1,000 other examples in the animal kingdom.
When a living being feels threatened, for whatever reason, it develops a fight or flight response. This is basic animal nature. In women alone at night, this can be telling people to fuck off, or hopping on your bike and riding away.
Where courtesy comes in is this: Is it your right, as another human being, to put another human being into a fearful and vulnerable state?
This applies to drunk wankers intimidating men walking home from the pub on their own, men catcalling women walking around in the dark, etc.
As a human being, you do not have the right to make another human being feel fear as a result of your actions. To do so is first discourteous, and then (possibly, and escalating) rude, aggressive, frightening, dangerous.
Manners. They're not just a girl thing.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:48 am (UTC)I often bemoan 'the yoof of today' and say that it's all down to no one having any respect or manners these days.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:43 am (UTC)When I see someone in the street that I htink is pretty, I always, always look straight down at the floor and say nothing.
-x-
PS, sorry for thieveing your comment about the two line official response thing. I was very angry yesterday!
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:48 am (UTC)Absolutley and is why i think alot of these comments men shout and way they behave is promoted and even applauded. Sadly i think alot of media/womans magazines pigeonhole women too....
god i could rant all day on this...and i'm not even a feminist...
(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 10:53 am (UTC)similar goes for living alone with just plain being attacked added in or burgled.
and i think some of hte men who wouldn't do such a thing alos don;t quiet get it either
do let us know the outcomes of your research
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 11:09 am (UTC)London has taught me to be suspicious of strangers in that they may want to rob me, start a fight, suggest something improper or generally annoy me but rape me, NO.
I get as many absurd and uninvited advances as the next girl but believe males who cry out idiotic observations deserve ridicule and pity more than scorn. They can be handled easily with humour and walking swiftly on.
Perhaps this is because I am of above average height also. I can't comment on what it would be like to feel that all men were bigger and stronger than me.
I know that women have many reasons to be angry in general but being so pissy at males because they can be stupid and horrifically clumsy & idiotic about attempting to get someone's attention seems a bit harsh.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 11:44 am (UTC)you have missed my point.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: