St George's Day

[emmelinemay]

A government minister has admitted that the government spent a mere 230 pounds promoting St George's Day over the last five years.

Comments

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

Is large amounts of national pride ever a good thing though? I just don't get it. The way I see it, nationality is an accident of birth, why should anyone be proud of an accident? Marginally pleased about it I can see, and hey, I chose to come and live here so there must be something right about this country - it's certainly a much more comfortable part of the world than many others. But "marginally pleased" doesn't wave flags.

[gaius-octavian.livejournal.com]

Lots of things are "an accident of birth". If you're tall you can play basketball, doesn't mean your love for the game is somehow less worthy, or that you shouldn't be proud of your ability to play.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty proud of London, and I've only lived here for 11 years. Come to that, I'm pretty proud to live in hackney, and I've only been there for a year and a half!!

It's a bit harder to be proud of England, when so much of it sucks. But I think national pride (as in YAY ENGLAND, not the racist sort) is actually really important.

It's certainly a shame that you can't talk about national pride without having to add a qualifier in about it being not racist ir xenophobic.

Guy - are we *agreeing* on something????????

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

I guess "pride" has different interpretations/connotations. When I see your icon (for future readers, in case it changes, it's a St George's cross), what I see is someone saying "we're better than everybody else because we're British", and I just can't agree with this one-upmanship based on accidents and subjective factors, which seem to be needlessly divisive. National pride to me is only slightly more relevant than supporting a specific football team.

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

sorrry - English, not British. Bloody labels.

[gaius-octavian.livejournal.com]

There is a big difference between "we're better than you" and "other people who have chosen to buy into the notion of Englishness have accomplished great things and I too choose to do my part, however little that might be".

It's only the English who are expected to - even expect to ourselves - justify this.

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

It's only the English who are expected to - even expect to ourselves - justify this.

mm, is it really? If it's any consolation, I'm equally (perhaps more) uncomfortable with the waving of the national flag from where I come from.

If it really is the case that the English are treated/treat themselves differently, I would suggest this may be residual historical guilt. I do find I'm less offended by flag-waving from nations that have been/are being oppressed or subjugated than that of countries who have planted that flag in other nations' faces at some more or less recent point in history.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

I do find I'm less offended by flag-waving from nations that have been/are being oppressed or subjugated than that of countries who have planted that flag in other nations' faces at some more or less recent point in history.

This is a very interesting point!

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I think a lot.

[quercus.livejournal.com]

Well stop it! We're going to see Indiana Jones soon. Too much thinking during that will surely not be a good thing.

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

[fruitlessly searches for brain off-switch. again]

I should have brought my bottle of Bombay Sapphire with me, I've discovered after decades of militant sobriety that it's the closest thing my brain can get to a holiday.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it explains why so many English people are reluctant to be proud of England when they associate it with generations of oppression and colonialism. Guy's point about France is a good one, but then, like the Dutch (as mentioned by medusa_mw) they were also occupied by the Germans. Perhaps there's something there.

I have Welsh, Irish and Scottish friends, and none of them feel weird about being proud of their country. It's just us English...

[gaius-octavian.livejournal.com]

I think it is. France's colonial history, for example, is no less bloody than ours, but the idea that he should be ashamed of being French would never even occur to Jacques Francais. Nor the Dutch nor the Spanish nor...

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

Please note the plural in countries who have planted... in my previous comment.

I'm French. I'm not ashamed of it as such but I'm not proud of it either. I popped out of a woman's uterus in a Parisian hospital and she happened to be French, which doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me other than cultural white noise at the back of my head and a very slight accent. I've certainly never waved a French flag and can't see myself ever doing so.

[medusa-nw.livejournal.com]

Can't speak for other nations, but us Dutch were occupied by Germany in WW2, that tends to unify a nation a bit... Plus orange is such a noticeable colour! ;-)

[quercus.livejournal.com]

orange is such a noticeable colour
...and the tails too.

[quercus.livejournal.com]

I'm not ashamed of England's historical past,
I'm ashamed of England's lager-fuelled present.

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

Well-said. Everywhere is a mix of good and bad, past and present. Take pride in your achievements, not in the fictitious slaying of a fictitious beast a long long time ago within arbitrary borders.

[quercus.livejournal.com]

than that of countries who have planted that flag in other nations' faces

Be Australian, get the best of both worlds:
"We kicked your ass in the war, fear our ocker manliness!"
and at the same time
"It wasn't our fault mate, those nasty English put us up to it."

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

Nah. Can't do the accent. Can't do any accents other than Her Off Waking The Dead (apparently).

[green-badger.livejournal.com]

I think if you're proud of something you're more inclined to look after it...

[annomalley.livejournal.com]

How many people who wave St George's flags during football season drop their MackyD containers out of their gas-guzzler's window on the way home?

I don't think there's a correlation between looking after one's environment/neighbours and nationality, and am more inclined to consider the benefits of seeing oneself as part of a (much) larger organism. Think Globally, Act Locally - what nationally?

[green-badger.livejournal.com]

Are those people actually proud of being English though?

I take your point, however.

[purplegril.livejournal.com]

I think everyone should be proud of who and what they are, because that's likely to mean that they're happy with who they are and what they are. And pride isn't the same as thinking something's better than something else, that's not what the word means. I'm proud of being a woman, being ginger, being English, my music tastes...etc etc because I like who I am. Simple as that.