gossiping, bitching, brutal honesty

[emmelinemay]

'gossip' has a bad reputation, but is apparently a vital social function...

Gossip [...] is far from pointless. It teaches us how to behave, determines our standing in the community, keeps us connected to one another and weeds out liars and cheats. Nearly two-thirds of adult conversation is devoted to people who aren't in the room, which translates to more than two hours a day. Believe it or not, this is not idle chatter. Without indirect evaluations of other people's behaviour, society would simply fall apart.

I've always felt bad about gossiping, or bitching. Especially when it's about a friend. But I have to admit, I do enjoy it. And sometimes, when I'm REALLY cross, having a damn good RANT about someone else makes me feel a lot better. It gets it all out.



The article compares 'gossiping' to grooming in chimps. It, apparently, creates a small high in us, making us feel good, and then is amplified by laughter. So, If you're feeling a little down, or low, phone a friend, get on MSN, have a damn good bitch. It will make you feel better. Maybe that's why I was depressed for so long, I hardly ever bitched about anyone...

That was a joke of course. But I did used to feel really uncomfortable about talking about other people, and I'd always feel I had to follow it up with a compliment, or a good thing, or a defence of the person/people¹ in question. I was always worried the person/people in question would find out what had been said, and be hurt by my words.

These days, I have greater self esteem. More trust in who my real friends are. Less fear of alienating people, or pissing them off. I have less tolerance for people who are gits to me, or treat me badly. Where once I would have assumed problems were my fault or gone to great lengths to avoid saying anything bad about anyone, including people that possibly deserved it, recently, something has clicked.

I have a new philosophy. call it a mid-year resolution. I'm not going to hold back any more. But I am going to keep one thing in mind. Before I have a good gossip or bitch, I'm going to ask myself. Would I dare to say this to the person's face? If the answer is yes, I'll get stuck in. If the answer is no, then I'll try to hold back - or at least re-phrase. I thin that's healthy.

So then I guess the dilemma arises - being nice to someone's face and nasty behind their back = two faced. being nasty to someone's face = Mean.

So how about this - being brutally honest to someone's face, AND behind their back. Could you do that?

As a 'scene' - could our friendship group survive brutal honesty? Perhaps we NEED the mean-behind-back-nice-to-face dynamic to survive. I don't have the answer, I'm just posing the question.

we feign innocence with every act of gossip we commit.

And this, I can relate to. Sally often calls me on it - when I say things like 'I feel bad about this, so-and-so is actually really nice/funny/clever/whatever' she'll say 'no you don't'. She's half right.

I *do * feel bad about bitching and gossping, but I feel good about it too. It's like eating a whole box of chocolates. You know it's awful, and you might pay for it later, but DAMN it feels good. And I have a nasty feeling that one of the main reasons I feel so bad about it is that I would hate it if people were talking about me in the same way.

But then, they probably do. And it probably makes them feel better, too.

"There is only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."

Thank you, Mr Wilde.

1 - We're talking generic gossip here, when I say person/people, I don't mean anyone specific!!)

Comments

[medusa-nw.livejournal.com]

being brutally honest to someone's face, AND behind their back. Could you do that?

I do it all the time. But only to people I like or at least respect, if I don't like or respect them I don't bother to say it to their faces. I try not to talk to people like that at all... ;-)

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

I guess, people you don't care for so much aren't worth your time.

I've had this conversation recently actually - often the people you really let rip on are those you care about/have cared about in the past.

But then other times, they are just knobbers who are fun to talk about.

[darkapotheosis.livejournal.com]

I try to be as brutally honest behind peoples backs as I am to their faces, be it good or bad things I'm saying. As far as people talking about me goes It tends not to bother me cause after all if it was serious my friends would pull me up about it and if it was someone being mean then they'd be doing it because they lacked the courage to bring it to my face. Besides like Kipling says "If all men count with you, but none too much" I always think it's better to take heed of others opinions of your strengths or shortcomings but also to keep a handy pinch bucket of salt around to take it with.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

That's a good point, and one that is sort of made in the article - that if people are taking about you in a certain way, perhaps it's something you should look at.

I found out once, some years ago now, that I had been the subject of many conversations about my temper and unpredictability, where I'd get suddenly cross with people saying things I didn't like, or agree with. Someone got brave enough (or cross enough) to tell me to my face. Of course, at the time, I reacted badly. But later it set me to thinking.

If that many people were saying those things about me, were they *all* wrong? Or did i really need to take another look at my behaviour, and do something about it?

That was a real turning point for me. I now think that if someone can say what they think are your bad points to your face, and you can hear it, and think about it, and accept responsibility for it, then you really can be a better person, if you want to. Or you can go 'I don't care what people say, I am me, people can accept it or go jump' - that is a positive outcome too, because you are still owning responsibility for yourself. As long as you REALLY mean that you don't care, and aren't just saying it, anyway!

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Hm. There's 'brutal honesty' and then there are statements that begin with 'I'm not being funny, but' or 'No offence, but'. Those are rude, rather than honest.

I have less tolerance for people who are gits to me...

Right. It seems to me that the purpose of a deal of 'gossip' is background fact-checking and cross reference. The 'Is it just me, or.. ?' question, if you will. Mind, if you're going to ask that sort of question, you have to be comfortable with the idea that it could just be you. Otherwise best not be asking for that particular avenue of validation.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

if you're going to ask that sort of question, you have to be comfortable with the idea that it could just be you.

yes, i hadn't thought about that angle, but it's a great point. If you do set out on a good rant about someone, and the person you say it to rebuffs you, or defends the person you are talking about, it can probably be just as hurtful!

Perhaps a lot of people end up joining in the gossip rather than risk upsetting the person their speaking to?

I think that's a good thing to bear in mind. If you are going to say something to someone about someone else, be prepared for a difference of opinion?

Or alternatively, choose your gossiping partner carefully!!

[canudiglett]

So then I guess the dilemma arises - being nice to someone's face and nasty behind their back = two faced. being nasty to someone's face = Mean.

I think the key here is to remember that just because you *would* say something to someone's face, it doesn't mean you *should*. So long as the person has a good idea that you don't like them and why (if they care why), they do not need to know every little detail or all the bad names you called them. Or, if it's someone you do actually like who has done one thing to annoy you, so long as you've told them why you are annoyed, it is okay to also go off on one behind their back.

Of course I sometimes get this all wrong and end up creating a big drama.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

Ah, drama. The bastard love child of Gossip Gone Wrong.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the definition is woolly.

I was equating gossip and bitching for purposes of my own update!

[kissmeforlonger.livejournal.com]

Quite often if I'm ranting about someone's behaviour behind their back and don't tell them, it's because I've realised how unreasonable I'm being. Or that I'm wrong. Or that I should express what I think/feel but in a different (calmer) way rather than shouting at them and damaging a friendship.

Talking about people can be really useful, and some of the MOST useful stuff you just can't say to someone's face.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

Or maybe, because you know they can't/won't accept what you want to tell them, and that it won't do any good?

[kissmeforlonger.livejournal.com]

Well, it turns 'aaaaargh you're an inconsiderate controlling bitch' into 'your behaviour had x negative effect on me, please ask me before you do something like that again'. Which is a way of doing something constructive with the anger (or whatever) not letting it lie. It's sometimes taken me a few months to feel able to say something that calmly, but I do do it.

But yes, sometimes you need to vent about someone you can't complain to directly, like your boss at work or whatever. Having worked in some really difficult places, group negativity can be really powerful and depressing to work with, so it's best used judiciously. One of the managers at work says he won't share an office with his staff because they need space to bitch about him - a very healthy attitude ;-) and needless to say, they rarely have cause.

[pygar.livejournal.com]

then the answer to being gossiped about is not to bring anyone into your confidence, to avoid anything but superficial social contact, to remove yourself from romantic or intimate associations, to ignor others gossip and to deflect any personal questions with idle chit chat.....

somehow that all sounds familiar.

[girfan.livejournal.com]

I've found out that a few people not only were gossiping about me, but spreading all sorts of crap about me, turning people who don't know me, against me.

And, not one of them has dared say anything to my face.

Yes, this has hurt, especially since it's lies and quite damaging.

So, my question is: how does one say anything to prove that the gossip was untrue or that there was another side to the story?

(Over the years, I try not to gossip, and I try not to spread lies about anyone. If I hear that someone is awful, I do try to find out if this is true for myself before believing it 100%)

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

I've been in a similar postion. When it first happened, some years ago now, i fell to pieces and couldn't cope.

Now, i figure, the people that care about me will know the truth. Anyone else isn't worth my time. Lies will out, if you just carry on being the real you.