Discussion Topic:

[emmelinemay]

One can be self-concious and un-self-aware at the same time.

Often, those who are most self-concious are the most un-self-aware.

Discuss.

Comments

[mark13.livejournal.com]

>Discuss.

Shotput. :P

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

that would be DISCUS

:P

although I did have a moment of spelling insecurity and check google

[mark13.livejournal.com]

I know, I was just taking the piss cos I couldn't think of much to actually discuss about a statement which is patently correct. ;)

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

why, thank you :)

I wasn't sure, it was something we came up with while we were in one of those weird headspaces, you know? Where EVERYTHING you say seems deeply profound and correct. I've been thinking about it today - and while I'm pretty sure it holds true for *me* I was interested in how other people felt about it.

[hirez.livejournal.com]

Yes. I don't quite know how, he lied. But yes.

[sushidog.livejournal.com]

Oh, very definitely. I think some people, in an effort (possibly subconscious) to escape the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or other people's opinions, or whatever, focus on one particular aspect of themselves, and get all caught up in it.

So it's sort of like someone with very very poor personal hygiene saying "Oh god, my nose is too big, isn't it? I know it is. It's really big and a funny shape, and that's why people don't talk to me. They don't talk to me because of my nose. It's my nose that puts them off, I wish I could do something about it, because then they'd like me. Maybe I could, maybe I could get plastic surgery, what do you think? If I got a nosejob, that would help, wouldn't it,a nd people would like me, wouldn't they? Because it's my nose that puts them off me. Yes, that must be it, if I got a nosejob, my life would be better and people would like me."

When in fact their nose is fine, it's just that they smell bad. But perhaps it's harder to accept "People don't talk to me because I smell bad" than it is to accept "People don't talk to me because my nose is too big".
Erm, if you see what I mean.

Only not necessarily with noses or personal hygiene. That's a metaphor. yes.

Um.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

hehe :)

It's something we came up with yesterday, while somewhat wired, so I was interested to see if it held water now I've, um, sobered up.

I think I'm more self aware now than I used to be, or at least I try to be, and I know I'm FAR less self-concious. I used to be *cripplingly* self concious, and when I look back at how in my own world I was self-awareness speaking, I *cringe*.

I don't know how the two are related though. Maybe it comes through understanding yourself and accepting yourself more, you seek the validation and/or approval of others less? Or is that chicken and egg? By seeking the validation and/or approval of others less, you learn better who you are as a person?

Jury is out on why, but I think the theory is sound.

[sera-squeak.livejournal.com]

I agree with the statement (and sushidog's expansion on the theme) however the why escapes me.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

maybe it is An Phenomenononenenon.

[sera-squeak.livejournal.com]

do-dooo-di-do-do

[publicansdecoy.livejournal.com]

Yes. Who was it who said that there are three parts to you - the part that only you can see, the part that you and others can see, and the part that only others can see. If you only worry about the first of these, then this could well be to the detriment of the last.

-x-

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

It could also be true to say: if you only worry about the second and third of these, it can be detrimental to the first.

[blu-matt.livejournal.com]

Very very probably.

[nils.livejournal.com]

Yes, that sounds about right to me.

[exliontamer.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I don't think the second statement is ALWAYS true.

[emmelinemay.livejournal.com]

Hence the 'often' :)

I don't think it's always true either. I have noticed though, often those who are self-concious are so painfully aware of their own perceived flaws, that they don't get a real picture of who they are, or how others see them, so end up with a really skewed self-image.

Does that make sense?

[johnnydarke.livejournal.com]

Firstly, there's surely a big, if somewhat arbitrary distiction between 'self-conscious' and 'self aware'...the former, to me, would imply a more negative state of mind...knowing you've got a spot on your face and being careful not to rub/scratch it so as not to make it worse, as opposed to having a spot on your face and refusing to leave the house.

It mainly depends on WHY you're so 'aware'...some people have analytical minds that soak up details and focus on small irrelevant things, but this mindset is an end in itself; info for info's sake, so there tends to be a balance between the positive and negative aspects that they see in themsleves. More often, i think, the analysis/attentiveness is only a means to an end; these people go looking for faults in themselves, and the more they find, the more they obsess about finding other faults.

It's also to do with whether you derive your self-image internally from yourself, or from others. Megalomania aside, I'd say that the former is the more healthy mindset. For one thing, you have absolutely no idea what other people see in you; it's the difference between seeing yourself in a mirror, and watching yourself on film.

To give an example (although I always end up in trouble for saying this)...cosmetic surgery patients are a good group to look at if you want to see a clear distinction between internal/external egos. There are those who have cosmetic surgery for themselves, and those who have it for others...this was really brought home to me when people found out about my impending rhinoplasty; 9 out of 10 people i spoke to gave the "oh, why!? You don't need it!". The prevailing view (not entirely unjustifiably) is that only insecure people have cosmetic surgery...but speaking for myself, I'd say it was more down to a healthy pride in my appearance. I never had anybody make negative comments about my nose (i actually had quite a few compliments) and I was not convinced that it was ugly, and would not have lived an unhappy life without a nose-job...I just thought that it didn't suit my face particularly well. It's the same sense of pride that makes you get your haircut...and we don't go around reassuring our friends in the hope that they'll quit going to their stylist.

Lastly, there's the perceptive/cognition gap...a dysmorphic (is that a word?) view of yourself could mean that even though you judge yourself in a fair, reasonable way, you're making those judgments based on flawed information; If every time i looked in the mirror i saw a fat, ugly guy then I'd damn well want to do something about it.

So, to sum up...First of there's the level of attention you give to yourself, why you're doing so, how accurately you see yourself, and then the criteria/attitude with which you pass judge this information. Of course it's not a linear process; there's feedback to/from each of these 'stages', affecting all the others in a constant dynamic...Your self image determines the mindset with which you begin the process, and the process itself determines your self-image.
You may start out judging yourself well, but something you notice could change the initial motivation for self-analysis, meaning you start looking for particular things instead of looking at yourself with an open mind.

Um...I've forgotten what the question was now.

[johnnydarke.livejournal.com]

I really should have proof-read a comment that long, shouldn't I...